Willow and Hackers

[marbleglove]

There have been "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" / "Hackers" crossovers before. i've read several. Some of them are good, some of them are not so good, but none of them have really been ideal.

In "Hackers", there is this whole hacker style that involves everything from clothes to music to jargon. In the big climactic scene at the end, we see little snippets of hackers other than our main characters and it's clear that hackers come from all social circles, but our main character still consider it necessary for real hackers to have all the frills. The stories I've read all buy into this idea and thus, when Willow meets up with the hackers, she's dressed in tight leather and using equally unusual speech patterns.

I would like a story in which Willow, she of the comfortable clothing and California-speak, were to meet the hackers.

My current idea sets it after the end of the series, (I haven't read the comic books at all beyond noticing that Dawn has become a giant), and have Willow getting her teacher certificate so that she can go back and be properly certified in order to teach at the new Slayer Academy. As her experience is with computers and teaching such, she becomes a student teacher at Stuyvesant High School, helping out with the computer classes.

Dade, Kate, and the rest of the hackers are taking this class for the easy "A" they can get. They sneer a bit at the overly cheerful Willow. Then they realize that their easy "A" is going down the drain because the computer system there has been upgraded to the point where they have to work together (and learn their lessons) in order to hack the system, and the lessons Willow is teaching are *hard*.

They try to figure out who she is. Discover that she's the IT person for an apparently unhackable organization based out of Cleveland. Then it's pointed out that she's not scared of anything. She's all light and fluffy and working in a major New York highschool and nobody scares her.

She is surprisingly cool despite appearances.

Of course that's not really a plot, just a starting point. For a plot, I'm thinking one of them gets annoyed with her messing up their grade scheme so hacks her government files and makes changes, like they did to that one FBI agent in the movie. However this time, they did it to the file of someone who the US Army is extremely nervous of and sort of wants to kill on principal for the whole almost-ending-the-world thing.

The rest of the hackers then need to save her, let the army know that she wasn't making changes to her own files, and possibly learn a few things about magic and demons in the mean time.

Comments

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Ohh I like your way better... especially if the Hackers then keep wondering about what makes apocalypse season and get introduced to Andrew the other geek that the scoobies have who is happy to finally have seniority over someone and then gets mocked by the new guys!

They could definitely be demons of a benign variety with an affinity for chaos. It would let them in the secret make them a little cooler and also sets up with why Willow and Oz would have gone to them (not only because they knew the secrets, might have worked together in something before).

I didn't really like Tara either, but that was maybe because I was an Oz fan and he didn't show up afterwards. Thought it would serve a nice purpose to get rid of Kennedy. So far options 1 and 3 seem to me the best for me, especially because if a Slayer was missing then more resources would have been diverted for her search and it would be a lot more time sensitive so Willow wouldn't be teaching or taking any long term or semi-permanent employment.

And you are right I don't think I have seen the mutual break up idea in fanfic before, but if that happened Willow wouldn't get to be so unstable.

I think getting her teacher's certificate might be a good idea, because if Slayer Academy is in existence then it needs certified teachers who can handle it. And the magical detox lasting a year is good, having to be cut off from large magical centrals explains why she is now away in NY. Thought it might be more of a revenge hit by Willow as well since she can't help with the hands own attack any more and she has time she decides to do it her original way.

In the way she first contributed to the scoobies, problem is they won't let her go without protection and they really can't spare anyone. So she remembers Oz and asks him a favor as he would fulfill the requirements and still be able to help her.

If Kennedy is missing then the problem becomes more time sensitive then if she was dead, maybe injured and hit with some spell they can't figure out but might have been registered in W&H's computers? (or is that too clichéd?)

I would prefer if she and Oz ended up together, especially if Willow and Kennedy had broken up before but are still close. I think that outside of Dade and Kate keep the hackers from romance, maybe at the end when the job offers come the others might flirt with some of the potentials or Dawn.
Willow would be their teacher and so her and a student is not something I can picture.
And at the end Willow stays to teach until the end of the year at the school instead of rushing back to Slayer HQ as she has to complete her detox.
She might end up alone with things to think about, I also want her and Oz to end up together because wolves mate for life and I know he would still love her.

He left to give her space, and letting go is the most difficult part.
It would be fun for Oz to know Blade and Razor's family from his time in Tibet and China and be there bringing them messages of their sedate and controlled family.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

I did miss Oz a lot. He was an awesome character. (And there should be more crossover stories with him involved with the various werewolf packs in other fandoms.)

And you're right: if Kennedy were alive but kidnapped it would be higher priority. So something else...

How about this: Willow and Kennedy separated amicably but no one really believes it. Everyone else is so used to the melodramatic relationships that they keep expecting more rather than for the relationship to just kind of peter out. Thus, when Kennedy is hurt in the apocalypse (but not killed because injuries can be shrugged off, but the death of an ex would be serious), and then Willow leaves town (in order to detox not because of any fight), everyone (ie. the government) thinks its a bad sign.

Oz is still keeping his distance because he doesn't want to mess things up worse than he feels he already did. But then Willow approaches him:

"Hey Oz. I'm moving to New York. I know you don't come by the Hellmouth, cause of control issues, and well, I'm having them too. Control issues that is. So I'm going to New York to detox for a bit and get my teacher's license. Um, I just wanted to let you know that I'd be there if you happened to be traveling through."

Oz blinks. "I'll be around." And promptly cancels all of his plans to spend the next year backpacking through the Bulkans, and instead tries to score some gigs in NY, NY.

So there they are in NY, and maybe it's been a pet peeve for a while that W&H got away with killing off Angel and his crew. Willow wants to do something to them. Or maybe Oz does. Or maybe Oz suggests that they work together to hack them because he wants to spend more time with Willow and it's a good excuse as well as being an interesting and virtuous thing to do. Since W&H is a powerful supernatural organization so using magic would just set of alarms anyway. So the best way to get into their system is pure computer hacking.

I sort of see H&W as having magical firewalls on their computers (as well as literal walls of magical fire elsewhere, I'm sure), but it's just a way of making it harder not impossible. Willow's own magic could get her through systems but now she has to rely on her knowledge of magic rather than her skills at it. If that makes sense. She knows how to do it the quick and easy way, now she just needs to do it manually.

So then the hackers or the government or someone does something to mess things up and suddenly what was supposed to be a low-key side project on lessening evil suddenly becomes a lot more time sensitive. Or, they discover some time sensitive information while hacking them and now they need to get the full story asap. Or cover their trail or something that requires the hackers to help.

I'm still blanking a bit on what crucial role the hackers will play. What makes Dale, Kate, et al, uniquely skilled? If Willow and Oz are both such elite and focused on subtle methods, why do they need the more chaotic kids? Any thoughts on the matter?


I like the idea of Blade and Razor having family in the old country. And if they're demons it could be a clan culture and all sorts of interesting things. I can't remember what exact ethnicity they were, however. Not Tibetan, Korean, or Vietnamese. I think Japanese, but I'm relying overly on my visual memory from years ago.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

I agree, he should be in more crossovers! He is perfect for it as he is known to be traveling the world and has a connection with both supernatural teams from Buffyverse so he might know others. He is just so udnerused! and just now I was reading some quotes from the show when he was still part and he was so wonderfully sardonic and ironic...
Oz: [voice over] I am my thoughts. If they exist in her, Buffy contains everything that is me and she becomes me. I cease to exist. [out loud] Hmm.
[Buffy and her friends are carving jack o' lanterns.]
Xander: I don’t know. I was going for ferocious, scary, but it’s coming out more dryly sardonic.
Willow: It does appear to be mocking you with its eye holes.
Oz: The nose hole seems sad and full of self-loathing.
I miss a show that can give us that sort of dialogue!

I think that is the perfect idea to deal with Kennedy and Willow, because taking into account everyone's love experiences the only relationship that was close to a more normal breakup was Cordelia's and Xander and it still involved a revenge demon. So nobody would believe that when Willow says they were over they were, cue traveling magical detox and you have a lot of worried outsiders, especially since even the scoobies might not have put faith in the separation.

Willow has to be the one to approach Oz as he wouldn't make the first move after what happened, and I love the idea that he says "I'll be around" and then has to cancel all this different things and postpone others for later.

Good idea about the pet peeve, Oz knew them and he might suggest the push into the digital direction. I mean Willow might be all we should do something about WH, its not fair they got away with L.A.
Oz. Then lets do something
W: But I can't use magic!
Oz. Let's do it old style. Like that time.
W. Ohh Why didn't I think of that! Lets do this and this and ... so they plan

It was something only they would be able to do without raisinga ll the magical alarms and diasbbling them while using the knowledge of magic and not magic itself. So something WH wouldn't have suspected.

I would go with the time sensitive issue, maybe when the hackers tried to mess with their files they triggered something? Or in the confusion of thing WH had found out about it they confront the Hackers and since they found a few clues to a very time sensitive project they are forced to ask for help. But instead of going to the Hackers they go to Razor and Blade (because they know them better) but they can't help for some reason maybe magical contract not to try to mess with WH?

As they are rather well known hackers who don't need the extra atention the law firm could bring or maybe have to visit family now because of the message Oz brought. So they instead refer Willow and Oz to Kate and Dade saying that the two and their group is the only one who might be able to help in such a short term or maybe they receive a list of possibilities and since the two already know about it they get recruited into the project.

so it would go faster with people helping. i don't remeber what their specialties were from the movie, I need to research that and how it would translate into modern day hacking but maybe because of those they would be able to help better with the cover up since W and Oz need to find the project files and erase them or replace them so the project will fail and need the hackers to cover their trails while they do it so there will be less complications.

But then the goverment tries to but in to see why they are in contact with the hackers or trying to find what they are planning and while W&O are being questioned Kate and Dade try to keep the project going or getting them out.

Can you imagine what sort of Clan culture could produce Razor and Blade? it wuold be awesome... and they might know Lorne!
in Imdb the actors who play them have last names Lee and Kim

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Oz really was fabulous. I think one of the reasons why he's underused is that he's a difficult one to write: quiet and subtle but also pointed and sardonic. I think the only author I've read who really gets him is PaBurke, but those stories are well worth reading.

Anyway, lets say all the hacking has to be done completely without magic and Razor and Blade are magic enough that they can't turn it off in order to hack. So they suggest getting the best pure-humans out there: Dade and Kate.

I like your idea that there's an evil project that W&H are planning and those records need to be removed entirely from the computer system. Which may be sentient in its own right, because, hey, inter-dimensional law firm. It's a right tricky beast.

So Willow and Oz need a virus that can search and destroy and but it's all they can do to get the doorways open long enough to insert anything, they can't develop the virus itself. If Willow and Oz are really super good at getting past security or setting up their own security, but what they need is a very specific type of virus in order to crash some subsystem of W&H without crashing the whole thing since that would just get attention and retaliation, they would need help for that.

Meanwhile the government is not happy about a possibly-homicidally-depressed Willow working with a bunch of apparently-anarchist hackers, especially since their target is a well-reputed law firm. Willow and Oz get pulled in for questioning and Dade and Kate need to keep the process going until they get back which is really amazingly tricky because the hackers don't have the magical history to know what they're doing. So then they need to send some of their hackers to help Willow and Oz be released so that they can get back before their insertion program messes up. They manage to get Willow and Oz back just in time to prevent the W&H system from kicking them out of the system so there's still a chance to insert the virus. But now the virus has to be completed and inserted and then that pathway closed down so no one can track them later.

And what was originally a long-term all-year project now needs to be done before the military can mobilize itself to stop Willow and Oz. Then it's rush, rush, rush until they can get the virus in and then they're all surrounded by the army and various other minions. The hackers are going, oh no, we're in so much trouble. But then Willow goes out, looking sweet and nice (with no black to her eyes or hair) and lets Riley know that nothing happened that the government needs to worry about. And Oz just shrugs when asked what just went down. And the hackers look on in amazement, wondering what sort of pull these people have because apparently they're not all going to be handcuffed and dragged off to prison after all.

Though the military is still looking at them suspiciously. Riley points out that it might be hard for them to get jobs after school with their records. So Oz says he rather thinks that this on their record will get them quite a few job offers. Willow says, oh, yes, do they want a job with the Council? And Riley winces, because making the council even more powerful and irresponsible was not his plan.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

I spent the weekend reading all of PaBurke's fics which explains my Ozzy mood and makes me crave moooore!
He would be a though one to write I grant you that... still he needs more loveee!

that is an even better reason for why they can't be in the hacking while still being aware of what is going on and maybe giving aide in the sidelines. Their computer being sentient is also a good way to need to hurry the invasion since chances are someone wouldn't feel a mosquito bite... but if it kept biting you in the same place the being would notice and bring out the spray.

Oooh good idea, they'd be able to crash the entire system but since that is precisely not the point they need aide... and which hackers have successfully dealt with a similar virus?? They would be good at making minor ones but since it ain't what they usually needed they aren't the best, and they need the best for this.

W&O are more of security experts, getting past and building it because that was what they most needed when lives were at stake before.

the question is how does the government discovers the target? but i agree that they would be very nervous at the possibilities since one of those hackers has a conviction for having created a economical crisis in Wall St. and the others were also suspects in the DaVinci case last year... not to mention they were apparently seen with one Daniel Osbourne who once leaving high school rejected a job at the premier software companies in order to road trip in a beat up van... something they don't buy and so are suspicious.

after the wacky plan to release the two from custody works (because with the other hackers in the plan it has to be a little wacky).
So we already have a great climax and denouement with guest appearance made by Riley which is so cool. Not to mention the build up of reasons of why the project becomes more time sensitive as they get into it which should make a good gradual build up for the fic.

And I can imagine him wincing and thinking that *he* had been planning on making the job offer, but since Willow and Oz are so much cooler than the Man with guns he knows he doesn't have a chance.

it would be cool to have then Willow take the hackers to e introduced to the Council during summer break, since she has to finish teaching before going on with Oz to complete the appointments he had postponed. And so we can get a reaction from the scoobies about the two taking on W&H on their own. and to the new employees.

which allows for the use of the apocalypse in may lines and the jump to the rest of the year with no need to write it all... and it keeps open for sequels since we don't know whenever WH realized they had been infiltrated and if so, by whom.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Maybe the government doesn't know who the target is, they just know that there is a target, which probably makes them all the more nervous because what if that target is them? Meanwhile, W&H remains completely oblivious. And a lot of tension regarding the hacking is to keep them oblivious. Then in the climactic scene, the sentient system becomes aware but the virus successfully deletes that knowledge.

Or blackmails the system, I suppose. If it's self-aware then it must have personality and weaknesses.

Then the sequel:

Dealing with a semi-evil sentient computer system that knows more than is healthy for you but has refrained, so far, from spilling your secrets to its masters. Or at least, if it has told, they're holding off on acting on it. Very unclear motivations regarding the computer program.

(Maybe Methos wrote it? Heh.)

Back to the original story, though, Riley and Slayer HQ could provide job offer and counter offer and the hackers could try to get the best deal. Because, while Slayer HQ may have a definite coolness factor, what they don't have are the amount of funding that the US Army has or the respectable reputation that parents might like in their kids' jobs.

Anyway, this would be a very cool story. Somebody (not me) should write it.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Oh yes... the becoming aware of the invasion would be a very nice cliffie! s that in the next chapter they can delete it.
Blackmailing the system would be an interesting strategy!
Especially if Methos wrote it (hey he did create the watcher interactive database).

It would be such an awesome story. Shame you won't write it *puppy eyes*

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Back, back evil puppy-eyes. Or better yet, Why don't you write it? I'll beta.

The best way to get a story that meets all your qualification is to write it yourself. It'll be fun.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

*puppy puppy eyes*
I can't write it! I have neither the skill nor the knowledge of the characters, especially Willow since I barely watched Buffy at the end.

Not to mention the fact I am job hunting, see? I can't!
what about you??
*kicked puppy eyes*

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

thought it is kind of tempting, because working out this plot was just so much fun! Especially imagining the twists and turns the characters would have to make to get where they would need to go

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Good luck on the job hunt. That can definitely be frustrating. But this could be a fun relaxation for you! Have an excuse to rewatch "Hackers" and maybe some of the Buffy episodes.

And it would be virtuous. Doesn't the world deserve to have a decent Buffy/Hackers fic in it somewhere? You could meet that need.

What's your favorite scene from this story?

Go pull up a word document, save the outline, and fill in your favorite scene. Just that one scene and send it to me. It'll be fun.

here, kitty, kitty. One step at a time.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

the temptation!! must resist!!!
You already made me spend the last two days reading PaBurke's fic since you recommended the Hl/BTVS/IJ x-over, cease your attempts!!

but I might, and I mean might give it a shot this weekend I am broke so no going out for me anyway ><;
but don't expect much from it... last time I tried to write I was in 7th grade and it was so mary-sueish even I couldn't stand it!

and you are right the world does need more Buffy/Hackers fic... but it also needs Highlander x-over fic (or sequels of fic)

You know you want to.... you have snippets some where... I know you do....

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Give in, give in to the dark side. Resistance is futile. Go with the muse. Lay back and think of fandoms. ... possibly these are not the best metaphors to convince you with, but still, you should definitely try.

And everyone writes Mary Sues, or at least thinks about them. The good authors just realize that it's a bad idea to let anyone else read them. Plus, I can't imagine you haven't grown up a bit since 7th grade.

Come on, come into my parlor... drat it, not that metaphor either. But just give it a try. It'll be fun. And a learning experience... and doing the world a favor...

Tempt, tempt, tempt...

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Well since you put ti that way, I'll try this weekend (at least I have an excuse to watch Hackers again.
But I don't promise you anything!

and how about you??
What favor will you do to the world? won't you post any more x-overs? I *know* you had some plans for a sequel for square peg, and some reactions for the SG-1crew with regards to what happened in the next chapter...
I was only more eager to read it after the review reply you sent me!

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Hmm. I've currently been bashing my head against the next section of my Labyrinth series, but it has not been playing nice. Neither has a chapter of an original story I've been thinking about for a while. The sequel to Square Peg is too humungous for me to think of without wincing.

I suppose I could do a one-shot Square Peg sequel but it would be more of a teaser than anything else, because, wow, is there a lot of work in taking over the universe.

How about a one-shot Methos/SG-A as a token thank you for your story. Would that do?

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Yes well, you are the one who volunteered to suffer through it and help me. You are going to need to be very patient and helpful! you hear me?


Ohhh oh yes it would!
it sure would! it would also help you take your mind of Labyrinth for a while. Some of the best things come when you aren't looking for it... best way to remember something is not to think about it after all!
Though if you want to write that SG1 teaser you won't hear any complaints from me!

(and likely not from you fans!)

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Excellent. I look forward to seeing what you create. And I'll try to write an appropriate thank you this weekend too.

I may need to re-watch Hackers, too.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Wacth away... because if you get ideas from it I won't mind you writing an x-over either... like you said the world needs more of them!

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Ack. Except what my brain does not need is more story ideas. This livejournal is supposed to be a way to get these stories out of my head, not to develop more of them!

Do you remember that one Sandman story in which Morpheus gives the playwright too many plot and characters ideas to deal with and it drives him insane? I would sympathize except for the whole kidnapping/torture/rape bit.

I do not need more ideas than I already have.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

I remember well that story... unfortunately all I have to say about that is "Oopsie"
and I will try do it again soon *wink*

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Heh. I will be strong and resist your evil whiles. At the same time, of course, trying to tempt you with my evil whiles.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Nooo... you shall not resist my whiles!
be tempted!!

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

So have you had a chance to work on this? Any luck?

I've started both a Methos/SGA story (which is about half done) and a future-Square Peg teaser (1/5th done maybe?).

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Not much luck so far things are going *very* slow and I can't seem to pick a scene to write even though I can *see* it in my head.

Yayyyyyyy
you deserve a cookie!! I am very glad to hear that and I will work extra hard!

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[marbleglove.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's frequently hard to get started. Once you have a scene in your head, you just need to start describing it. Or start with the dialogue and ignore the description entirely. Type whatever with the understanding that you don't care if it's good or bad at this point as long as it has the virtue of existence. Then you can go back later and edit.

Re: Willow and Oz and Hackers

[lita-of-jupiter.livejournal.com]

Okay. I'll try that